argaux Ayn Schaffer posted this response to the initial comment:
What about our identity as Americans? Being a hyphenated individual does nothing to unite us, it only further divides us. THAT IS SEPARATISM!I responded with:
Margaux, white Americans have made it quite clear over the last 200 plus years that my identity as an American and any other POC is subject to their interpretation.
I went from being 3/5 of a human to full citizenship thanks to the 14th Amendment and 150 plus years of blood, sweat, tears and activism, and even still I'm only an 'American' when I'm needed to fight a war or pay taxes.
Why is it nobody has a problem with people claiming they are German American, Italian American or other hyphenated European ethnic groups, but let a POC proclaim they are African-American, Asian American or a Latino/a American and European descended Americans start trippin?
Being proud of where you come from is NOT separatism.
I went from being 3/5 of a human to full citizenship thanks to the 14th Amendment and 150 plus years of blood, sweat, tears and activism, and even still I'm only an 'American' when I'm needed to fight a war or pay taxes.
Why is it nobody has a problem with people claiming they are German American, Italian American or other hyphenated European ethnic groups, but let a POC proclaim they are African-American, Asian American or a Latino/a American and European descended Americans start trippin?
Being proud of where you come from is NOT separatism.
Margaux Ayn Schaffer America is supposed to be a melting pot, not a caldron.
Individual identity is not at issue, groupthink is.
Individual identity is not at issue, groupthink is.
btw: I am German/French/Cherokee.
Its easier to call myself an American.
Then I responded to those comments with:
@Margaux..your reaction is typical of someone who is wallowing in white privilege and just dismissed what my and my people's lived experience in America is
@margaux Me or anybody else calling ourselves African-American shouldn't bother you
After two other commenters expressed their thoughts Margaux lobbed this incendiary comment into the mix.
Margaux Ayn Schaffer @De, I just think Monica is being too confrontational and divisive.
Margaux Ayn Schaffer
I'm not bothered by how people identify. Far too much is being read into what I have stated. It's obvious that my opinions carry some participatory bias as does everyone else's. I just think that the hostility is palpable on both sides of t...he argument and people need to find the pause switch and press it then ask the right questions in a less accusitotory manner. Being bitter and combative (I'm not, just frustrated that people are isolationist in their outlook). I just think that whether or not your points are valid, it's not how you build bridges towards understanding others when you are just as full of hostility as you alledge me of being. I apologize if I have offended anyone.
Obviously Margaux did care because she wouldn't have made the original 'hyphenated American' comment in the first place. I also decided to point out she ignored what I had to say about Black citizenship being ignored and the silencing tactics she was engaging in.
Obviously Margaux did care because she wouldn't have made the original 'hyphenated American' comment in the first place. I also decided to point out she ignored what I had to say about Black citizenship being ignored and the silencing tactics she was engaging in.
@Margaux, you prove my point with every post you make. I'm speaking my truth and my lived experience and you in your infinite vanilla flavored wisdom have dismissed it and deemed it 'divisive' and 'confrontational'
if you don't like me speaking the truth about the historical fact that POC status as Americans is subject to the whims of white people, e, you can always unfriend me..
Once again Margaux, check the history books. heard of a case called Dred Scott v Sanford?
If it's not the case that POC US citizenship is subject to the whim of white people, explain the efforts by Tea Klux Klan members and the conservafool movement to repeal the 14th Amendment, deny the children of undocumented immigrants born on American soil and who are Americans their citizenship, and the proposals to take away citzenship from people deemed 'terrorists'
Funny the people overwhelmingly backing those proposed laws share your ethnic heritage.
if you don't like me speaking the truth about the historical fact that POC status as Americans is subject to the whims of white people, e, you can always unfriend me..
Once again Margaux, check the history books. heard of a case called Dred Scott v Sanford?
If it's not the case that POC US citizenship is subject to the whim of white people, explain the efforts by Tea Klux Klan members and the conservafool movement to repeal the 14th Amendment, deny the children of undocumented immigrants born on American soil and who are Americans their citizenship, and the proposals to take away citzenship from people deemed 'terrorists'
Funny the people overwhelmingly backing those proposed laws share your ethnic heritage.
Margaux Ayn Schaffer
@Monica, I am not a revisionist. I know my history.
On the other hand, the question is how do we build a bridge to the future. How do we move forward. Mutual respect is a good place to start. But you need to consider whether you seek to preach to the choir or reach out to a broader community. You catch more bees with honey than vinegar.
I just think that painting white people (and myself in particular) is not the way to win hearts and minds.
People are factionalizing. Tribalism is coming back.
On the other hand, the question is how do we build a bridge to the future. How do we move forward. Mutual respect is a good place to start. But you need to consider whether you seek to preach to the choir or reach out to a broader community. You catch more bees with honey than vinegar.
I just think that painting white people (and myself in particular) is not the way to win hearts and minds.
People are factionalizing. Tribalism is coming back.
After two other comments, tried to get the discussion back on track after finally having enough of Margaux and blocking her.
Monica Roberts on that note now can we get back to what this community needs to do to realize that identity politics are alive and well, aren't going away any time soon, and what this community needs to do to pass our political and social agenda in light of that fact
Nope...Two more people besides Margaux picked up the 'Monica is a 'divisive racist' meme and you know I wasn't having that BS continue on my own FB page.
It's at 31 comments as I write this, and y'all can read how it developed for yourselves.
Once again this is a classic example of a person of color making a statement in online discourse that doesn't fit the vanilla flavored worldview of some white people. They don't like it and either try to ignore it, or flip the script and attack the POC by deeming them as 'racist', 'confrontational' or 'angry' in order to silence them and therefore get the last word in.
The insidiousness and insanity of 'whiteness' and 'white privilege'. All this drama I wasn't looking for that day when I simply posted a comment on my own FB page that wasn't in the spirit of being confrontational.
For you peeps that accused me in that thread of being confrontational, when I want to be confrontational, trust me, there will be no doubt in yours and anyone else's minds when I do go there.
